OK...I know this is dangerous ground to tread, but I am looking for your comments here concerning the comments of one of my heros, William Booth. Please leave your comments anonymous if you will.
The theatre in Worcester was crowded for the visit of William Booth on January 22, 1882. Even the General himself 'had great difficulty in getting in'. The door was smashed by the crowd still trying to gain admission after the place was full.George ' Sailor' Fielder, the Commanding Officer, had been put up to sing. He had been a sea captain with a voice that had often been heard above the roar of the waves. (Forty years later he still had ' a voice like thunder and gloried in open-air fighting'.) He sang his testimony in the words, ' Bless His name, He set me free.'
'That was a fine song. What tune was that? ' inquired the Army's Founder later.
'Oh,' came the reply in a rather disapproving tone, General, that's a dreadful tune. Don't you know what it is? That's " Champagne Charlie is my name".' That's settled it,' William Booth decided as he turned to Bramwell. ' Why should the devil have all the best tunes?'
An early pamphlet made the Army's position clear by saying that it' considers all music sacred when used with holy purpose'. For his Christmas message to War Cry readers of 1880 William Booth had already written: ' Secular music, do you say, belongs to the devil? Does it? Well, if it did I would plunder him for it, for he has no right to a single note of the whole seven. . . . Every note, and every strain, and every harmony is divine, and belongs to us. . . . So consecrate your voice and your instruments. Bring out your comets and harps and organs and flutes and violins and pianos and drums, and everything else that can make melody. Offer them to God, and use them to make all the hearts about you merry before the Lord.'
25 comments:
Can't get comments any other way, huh? Just a thought...
You tread on dangerous ground when you take something that has been offered to idols and mimic it in your service to God. "Why should the devil get all the best ways to worship? Offering strange fire in our censers is a great way to do it..." That argument didn't work for Nadab and Abihu. Just a thought...
Just a thought... not too anonymous
Oh..I didn't sight my source. This artical was taken from Salvation Army's website.
Take one of our sacred tunes ("The Bible speaks of songs, hymns, and spiritual songs,but I prefer the hymns")and fill it with words that glorify anything but God. Does that change the tune into a unrighteous and unholy thing? Maybe that tune was a tool in the hand of an evildoer.
Is this logically sound? ([If music has holy purpose then music is sacred.] The converse of a conditional statement is formed by interchanging the hypothesis and conclusion of the original statement.
In other words, the parts of the sentence change places. [If music is sacred then it has holy purpose.] The inverse of a conditional statement is formed by negating the hypothesis and negating the conclusion of the original statement. [If music has not holy purpose then music is not sacred.] The inverse has the same truth value as the converse of the original statement. The INVERSE and the CONVERSE of the original statement are logically equivalent. 1Co 14:26 "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm..." 1Co 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion...") I think so.
Converse? Inverse? Negate the hypothesis?
Huh?
The author of confusion has been found.
I would say that the music needs to be evaluated. Plain and simple, some music has a worldly, devilish beat. Can an originally secular tune with Christian lyrics glorify God? - Most definitely. Can every secular tune be re-worded and give glory to God? - I think not. Again, the music itself does need to be evaluated.
I bring this example. For anyone who has ever heard the song, "He Looked Beyond My Fault" you can testify that it brings great blessing and is pleasing to God. (You can type the title into Google and view the lyrics if you are unfamiliar with it.) These lyrics were written in the 1970's and put to the tune of the Irish folk classic, "Danny Boy."
If you listen to the song, I don't see how it would be a problem, or why it would become a problem if you found out the origin of the tune.
(Adding to the controversy) Good post Shannon.
What would define a wolrdly, devilish beat? That thought is inane.
"What would define a wolrdly, devilish beat? That thought is inane."
I assume 'worldly' is what was meant, not 'wolrdly.' If so, then:
All that is in the world: The lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life.
Does the beat feed the flesh? Does the beat feed lust? Does the beat feed your pride? If so, then it is worldly, and thence devilish.
If you think beat/music/melody CAN NOT do those things, then why is there a genre of music, without lyrics, that is generally used for "stripping"? (At least, that is what I'm told.)
I have to think that it is not an inane thought that a beat can be worldly/devilish. Unless you mean to restrict the 'beat' to simply the counting of rhythm: 1, 2, 3, 4, etc.
Ok... moving on... Danny Boy. That actually is a song whose lyrics were put to a tune that was at least 50 years older. Apparently, the tune was simply an old Irish tune played on a pipe - written without any lyrics. So, the lyrics "He looked beyond my fault" is actually applied to an old Irish lyricless tune. I think it's safe.
Moving on again... I'm not even touching he inverse/converse. I don't see any point being made. However, everything was made with a purpose of being sacred - set apart for God's use. Those that use anything for a purpose other than bringing glory to God, are taking the sacred and ruining it. The same can go for music.
Anyway, Just a thought...
Dangerous blog, brother. I'll not throw in my two cents...though I think you know my stand. I will, however, sit back and enjoy the bedlam you've created. At least it isn't me for a change.
I think someone once wrote a few posts about godly music. I think that explained things pretty well - and he quoted Bible verses. It wasn't just his opinion.
Yeah, I read a blog that was something like that one too:
Lunch-Time Thoughts
It used to be a good blog, but it has somewhat gone by the wayside it seems.
Just a thought...
I'm inclined to agree with Booth, in that music was created by God and it is consecrated for His purposes. But the devil is a copy cat with no original idea of his own, so what he chooses to steal and twist for his purposes is not sacred. But I guess I tend to believe that what God enjoys, what glorifies Him, is a little broader than what some people think is the case. I have no scripture for this theory, just a few years of observing life on this earth. God gives us rules to live by for our benefit, but He also gives us freedom and creativity.
I happen to work with someone who flits around the office, sometimes singing hymns, othertimes making up little songs, such as "thank you God for the sunshine..." (today's song!) So what if the tune was slightly reminiscent of some other song that I can't quite put my finger on? It is not the other song. It's her praise song, of the top of her head, worshipping God. Worshipping God impuslively, in the minute. I wish I was more like that.
More and more I am coming to the conclusion that we really make our decisions based on what is the perceived acceptation of a thing by our culture, as opposed to what God really desires.
I was reading recently about Jonathan Edwards, and he was a slaveowner that argued in favor of being allowed to own slaves. He preached against the slave trade, but not against the ownership... (yet he got his slaves through the trade??)
What's my point? Even a God-fearing man, a man resolved to live every moment for God's purposes and glory, held to a belief and acted accordingly, because it had been so long accepted by the culture in which he lived. Today we would all boo that action.
What does this have to do with music? I think most of us base our stance on music according to the particular culture or sub-culture in which we live. If "Contemporary Christian Music" is acceptable in your circle of friends, then you will be much more apt to accept it. If all instruments are unacceptable in your circle, you'll be less apt to accept nice piano music.
What do I think? I would like to think that I have conservative standards for the music that I choose and control, yet I have liberal standards for the actions that I would reprove in others. (That last sentence came out backwards... I am saying that I will allow more in the lives of others than I will in my own... I'm just too tired to re-word it!)
Fear God, and keep His commandments. Make music whose primary purpose is to please God -- then, you can consider man's wants.
Shannon, I think you have succeeded in getting your comments!
Just a thought...
What is with all the anonymous comments? Here's a question: if you have a thought that you wish to share, and you really believe that comment, why not put your name to it? Almost looks as though you're afraid.
I asked people to post anonymously.
So...what else happened in NYC?
forgive me
I appreciate the anonymity... That way I can comment as I feel, and nobody knows who I am.
Just a thought...
:)
Have no idea who that was!
Just another thought...
I think music is not all the same, I came from a metal back ground, in hardcore/heavy metal no one can understand the singer half the time and that's ok because everyone knows it's angry and evil at it's core. the words are then totally meaningless yet the music is evil. if i remove the words from a slayer song does that make the song now neutral? anyone who listened to it would get the feelings and emotion that comes out of it - hate, darkness, anger, sadness, depression, domination, evil, and so on. with visions of murder, and demons swimming through your mind. now if I add the name of the living God to this profane thing has it become holy? no, the sound of the music will still invoke the same thoughts, feelings, and images as it did before only now I have just made God part of something only the devil is fit for. (wherefore come out from among them and be ye separate and touch not the unclean thing - and do not add God to it i might add) God is not like us and we should not try and make him that way. still and all I am willing to bet the music the salvation army was worried about using at that time would be equal to the most conservative worship music of our day. so, I conclude that the words do not change the music if it's evil it's evil but not all music is born from a group of devil worshipers like metal was so....yeah....i guess we could use music thats not born of an evil nature but why cant we just be creative enough to make up our own worship songs -
I agree with Anonymous -- good points!
You anonymous people all stick together.
A wise man once said that if you can bring glory to God by drinking a fifth of Jack D, then by all means do so. If you can't, then don't.
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